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April 27, 2024, 02:47:55 pm

Author Topic: VCE English Question Thread  (Read 853384 times)  Share 

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YellowTongue

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #840 on: December 04, 2015, 01:14:55 pm »
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Is it acceptable to draw ideas from more than one text in Section B (providing that they're on the VCAA English text lost)?
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thaaanyan

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #841 on: December 04, 2015, 01:45:36 pm »
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Is it acceptable to draw ideas from more than one text in Section B (providing that they're on the VCAA English text lost)?

Do you mean, that you've studied two context texts and you draw upon them both in an essay? I was specifically taught not to, one of my teachers told me it just appeared a bit lazy, and it was better to draw on external examples. She's an examiner so I trusted her judgement. But I guess, at the end of the day, if your teacher is fine with it then it's ok, but it's something to consider whether you'd like to do it in the exam or not,

YellowTongue

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #842 on: December 04, 2015, 02:08:43 pm »
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Do you mean, that you've studied two context texts and you draw upon them both in an essay?

No, I mean are you allowed to draw ideas from multiple texts from the same context?

Thank you for your help  ;D
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appleandbee

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #843 on: December 04, 2015, 02:17:52 pm »
+1
No, I mean are you allowed to draw ideas from multiple texts from the same context?

Thank you for your help  ;D

Using multiple texts is fine, though personally I would avoid texts from different contexts or old texts list. This is for the exam at least. For SACs (depending on your school), you are only allowed to use one focus text from the list. Avoid being to text-dense in general because you want a balance between your selected texts and external ideas!
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pi

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #844 on: December 04, 2015, 02:36:31 pm »
+1
In the exam booklet though you still have to have a "main text", which will be one of the two you studied throughout the year. That said, you can draw on other texts and other external resources in your piece, but one text will be more predominantly drawn upon (ie. your chosen "main text").

thaaanyan

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #845 on: December 04, 2015, 05:25:08 pm »
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No, I mean are you allowed to draw ideas from multiple texts from the same context?

Thank you for your help  ;D

Yep this is totally fine :) Though echoing apple-bee well rounded pieces tend to draw from a range of sources such as history, politics, philosophy etc.

Callum@1373

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #846 on: December 25, 2015, 09:42:51 pm »
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This is for anyone who has read This Boy's Life, when do I refer to Tobias Wolff as Jack and when do I refer to him as Toby?
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #847 on: December 26, 2015, 05:23:38 pm »
+3
This is for anyone who has read This Boy's Life, when do I refer to Tobias Wolff as Jack and when do I refer to him as Toby?

When discussing the character, pick either Jack or Toby and stick with that name throughout your discussion. When referring to the author, use 'Wolff'. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which name you use to refer to the character, as long as you're consistent.
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Callum@1373

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #848 on: December 26, 2015, 05:48:22 pm »
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When discussing the character, pick either Jack or Toby and stick with that name throughout your discussion. When referring to the author, use 'Wolff'. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which name you use to refer to the character, as long as you're consistent.
Aha cheers
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #849 on: December 27, 2015, 07:43:16 pm »
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I have a question with drawing ideas from my text, This Boy's Life. I've noticed how Wolff comments on Chinook, and how due to the mountains light rarely reaches town. This kinda draws a similarity with his life in Chinook, he does not find any happiness with Dwight and feels miserable living with him and longs for his mother. In other words, physical environment <=> living with Dwight, there's a big reflection.

My problem is, if this were a fictional novel I could say how the author has chosen for the landscape to reflect the life living with Dwight. However, because This Boy's Life is a memoir, it actually HAPPENED that way, in other words, I cannot create meaning from this link between the environment and life with Dwight because that's how it actually physically was in real life. So how do I integrate that into my essays given what i've said above?
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Alter

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #850 on: December 27, 2015, 08:15:13 pm »
+3
The fact that he chose to include it in his memoir is what makes it something you can mention. This is true for any non-fiction text. Just because it actually happened that way, doesn't necessarily mean you can't give reference to it as an author's choice in a text response. The author could have easily not mentioned the landscape in your text, but they chose to for specific reasons (or at least that's how you have to think as an English student).

Sorry for shortness, posting from phone. Lmk if you need further clarification of what I mean.
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SlothPlays

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #851 on: December 27, 2015, 08:27:29 pm »
+3
I have a question with drawing ideas from my text, This Boy's Life. I've noticed how Wolff comments on Chinook, and how due to the mountains light rarely reaches town. This kinda draws a similarity with his life in Chinook, he does not find any happiness with Dwight and feels miserable living with him and longs for his mother. In other words, physical environment <=> living with Dwight, there's a big reflection.

My problem is, if this were a fictional novel I could say how the author has chosen for the landscape to reflect the life living with Dwight. However, because This Boy's Life is a memoir, it actually HAPPENED that way, in other words, I cannot create meaning from this link between the environment and life with Dwight because that's how it actually physically was in real life. So how do I integrate that into my essays given what i've said above?

A'lot of the time, the book is symbolic for a lot things. An instance of this in Page 62 after visiting Dwight's place in Chinook and Dwight shows him the salmon. In this section Wolff is metaphorically suggesting that Jack and Rosemary’s movement away from their home into the unknown is doomed. More broadly, he is examining the way that the constant journey looking for change and security is futile. More than that, the toll it takes is as visible as the ‘strips of flesh’ hanging from the body. You can find that environments + symbolism throughout the novel is quite significant.

Another the environment of the home in Chinook, when Dwight paints the whole house white before Rosemary arrives. In this instance it shows Dwight trying to literally paint over the inadequacy of what he has to offer to Rosemary. In doing so, in trying to make everything perfect, he makes the strangeness more pronounced and highlights his own inability to fix things.

It is important to recognize that the book is a memoir. However it is Wolff who decides what goes in and for what purpose, and most of the time its got a symbolic purpose, and you can talk alot about that.


literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #852 on: December 27, 2015, 08:30:25 pm »
+2
I have a question with drawing ideas from my text, This Boy's Life. I've noticed how Wolff comments on Chinook, and how due to the mountains light rarely reaches town. This kinda draws a similarity with his life in Chinook, he does not find any happiness with Dwight and feels miserable living with him and longs for his mother. In other words, physical environment <=> living with Dwight, there's a big reflection.

My problem is, if this were a fictional novel I could say how the author has chosen for the landscape to reflect the life living with Dwight. However, because This Boy's Life is a memoir, it actually HAPPENED that way, in other words, I cannot create meaning from this link between the environment and life with Dwight because that's how it actually physically was in real life. So how do I integrate that into my essays given what i've said above?

Seconding what Alter and Slothplays have said; you can still comment on its inclusion in the memoir and discuss it's significance in that sense.

And if you wanted to push things even further into structural territory, you could think about how the author includes them, and the kinds of descriptions Wolff offers. There's a world of difference between:
a. 'There are mountains where I live. I think I'll have soup for dinner today'
and
b. 'The mountains outside blocked out the sun, so there was very little daylight to counteract my misery.'
In both instances, the fact that there are mountains is something that's presented as being true, but it's inclusion in the first case isn't really all that important. Whereas, in the second sentence, you could comment on the connection being made by the character, and discuss that metaphor/analogy/parallel in your essay.

You could also talk about it in relation to the retrospective nature of the text - I've found that to be a fairly big concern when dealing with TBL; how reliable is Wolff as a narrator? How much of this story is an accurate reflection of Jack's life, and how much if it is coloured by the advantage of Wolff's hindsight?

Callum@1373

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #853 on: December 27, 2015, 08:41:42 pm »
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The fact that he chose to include it in his memoir is what makes it something you can mention. This is true for any non-fiction text. Just because it actually happened that way, doesn't necessarily mean you can't give reference to it as an author's choice in a text response. The author could have easily not mentioned the landscape in your text, but they chose to for specific reasons (or at least that's how you have to think as an English student).

Sorry for shortness, posting from phone. Lmk if you need further clarification of what I mean.
Cheers!

A'lot of the time, the book is symbolic for a lot things. An instance of this in Page 62 after visiting Dwight's place in Chinook and Dwight shows him the salmon. In this section Wolff is metaphorically suggesting that Jack and Rosemary’s movement away from their home into the unknown is doomed. More broadly, he is examining the way that the constant journey looking for change and security is futile. More than that, the toll it takes is as visible as the ‘strips of flesh’ hanging from the body. You can find that environments + symbolism throughout the novel is quite significant.

Another the environment of the home in Chinook, when Dwight paints the whole house white before Rosemary arrives. In this instance it shows Dwight trying to literally paint over the inadequacy of what he has to offer to Rosemary. In doing so, in trying to make everything perfect, he makes the strangeness more pronounced and highlights his own inability to fix things.

It is important to recognize that the book is a memoir. However it is Wolff who decides what goes in and for what purpose, and most of the time its got a symbolic purpose, and you can talk alot about that.


I love you for that haha. So basically, it's the fact that Wolff CHOSE to put it in the memoir, he has a wide array of things he can talk about, but it's the fact that he chooses to talk about this because he wants readers to realize what his life was like in Chinook through this analogy...

You could also talk about it in relation to the retrospective nature of the text - I've found that to be a fairly big concern when dealing with TBL; how reliable is Wolff as a narrator? How much of this story is an accurate reflection of Jack's life, and how much if it is coloured by the advantage of Wolff's hindsight?
Hey lauren, with the idea that you have mentioned above, where would I go with it? As in, how can I start putting that knowledge into practice? Like if I were to talk about that in an essay, what would I be saying?
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #854 on: December 27, 2015, 09:30:59 pm »
+7
Hey lauren, with the idea that you have mentioned above, where would I go with it? As in, how can I start putting that knowledge into practice? Like if I were to talk about that in an essay, what would I be saying?

Firstly, you can think of the text as existing on four main levels:

                    1. ---Views & Values Messages that the author expresses ---
                    2. ---Thematic Ideas and Concerns in the text---
                    3. ---Characters and their Journeys---
                    4. ---Structural and Language Features that convey meaning---

For the first part of your study (ie. reading the texts over the Summer and discussing them in class once school starts,) you'll mainly be concerned with levels two and three, since that's where most of the summative details are. So questions like 'Who is Arthur and why is he significant?' or 'What do Jack's experiences say about the nature of childhood?' are going to be the most valuable at that stage.

Once you've built a stable foundation there, you can move in either direction: up to level one (so zooming out of the text and thinking about bigger, broader ideas) or down to level four (a.k.a. zooming in to close textual details.) Otherwise, if you rush into thinking about huge concepts like authorial bias or how the setting affects our interpretation, you'll find it really hard to reconcile the different facets of the text, and you might even make things more complicated for yourself later down the track. Therefore, you shouldn't feel like you should address the biggest questions first, but rather document them until you are better equipped to explore them fully later.

But given where you're at now, you're probably starting to notice a few things like Jack's desire for self-determination in the way he tries to shape the narrative of his life, or even in smaller (~verging on 'level 4' structural) details like how he changes his name. Likewise, you might also read certain passages (especially the end of the text) where Wolff's narration becomes much more overt and wonder what the significance of those kinds of excerpts are. That's why it can be helpful to start considering the role of the author and his hindsight. You're not going to be able to comprehensively answer these questions just yet, but by acknowledging them, you'll broaden your understanding of the text in a way that'll be very advantageous later.

Secondly (...even though I made more than one point before, but whatevs...) embedding this in an essay is easier than it might seem. Sometimes you'll get a prompt that directly asks you to discuss such an idea, eg. Wolff's depiction of Jack in This Boy's Life is more idealised than honest. Do you agree? or In This Boy's Life, it is Tobias Wolff's narration that helps us justify Jack's behaviour and sympathise with his character. Discuss. in which case you'll obviously have to structure your discussion around that concern. But it's also possible for you to get a more 'level 2 or 3' prompt like Rosemary is the only positive role model in Jack's life. Discuss. and still be able to weave in discussions about authorial/narrative bias. For example, how do we know Rosemary is a positive role model? Does she seem that way to Jack, or to Wolff? Does Wolff perhaps look back on her parenting in a different way now that he's an adult, in contrast to how he would've seen it when he was a child? Are Jack's views and Wolff's views necessarily one and the same?

One way to explain this that I've found helps a lot for this text is to imagine you wanted to write a story about how drugs are bad, and you did drugs as a kid so you want to use that as a kind of moral reference point. But when you talk about yourself in hindsight, present-day-you is going to have a very different perspective, as well as different priorities, and perhaps even a different world view to drug-taking-you-from-the-past. So when you write from the point of view of your former self, you're not going to be accurately conveying yourself as you are in the present, because you're trying to capture how you were back when you were high on mescaline. Therefore, the values of your past-self as a character in your 'Drugs Are Bad' memoir are going to be different to the values you have as an author.

That's generally the kind of distinction you want to make when it comes to TBL; treat 'Jack/Toby' -- I prefer Jack, but I've seen prompts go both ways -- vs. 'Wolff' as separate entities and discuss them accordingly.

Then, when it comes to your analyses, you might have a point of discussion like:

'...which reinforces the idea of Jack's lies being damaging to his relationships. However, by virtue of Wolff's frankness and the candid honesty in his depiction of his former self, we are inclined to forgive this fault in Jack and see the memoir itself as a kind of penance for his wrongdoings. Furthermore, in the chapter where...'

or you might have a whole sub-argument structured around that kind of idea. It all depends on the prompt, but until you get to grips with the ideas in isolation, it can be tough to visualise how they'll all come together in the end.

That ended up being a lot longer than intended, but to answer your question more succinctly, the way you'd discuss this idea would hinge on what facet of this idea was relevant to the essay topic, and what you'd be saying would be whatever would strengthen your contention whilst showcasing your knowledge of the text. In some instances, that content might include a comment or two about the notion of an unreliable narrator or of authorial hindsight, but other times it might not, so be flexible with it :)