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tashhhaaa

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #825 on: October 27, 2015, 08:51:53 pm »
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At the thought of "Jason's treachery", Medea is reminded of the fact that, as a result of Jason's egocentricity, the children "must be killed" and she realizes that they will experience a horrific death, ultimately in order to fulfill her quest for vengeance. Thus, she weeps and laments that "What a wretched creature I am" and in turn, her eyes are "fill[ed] with tears" at this thought, which may be Euripides' attempt at displaying Medea's underlying passion for redemption.

thank you!!!!

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #826 on: October 27, 2015, 09:52:55 pm »
+9
                    ~~~Just for the sake of visibility!!!
I'll be hanging around the forums all night and in the early hours of the morning tomorrow, so whilst I'd advocate getting a good night's sleep, if people want to drop their essays in on the forums someplace, I will get to everyone's, including anything that's slipped under the radar this week, so feel free to post a couple of things tonight, and then you'll hopefully get a chance to read through the recommendations tomorrow morning.

Best of luck everyone!
;D ;D

Hi just looking to clear some things up before the exam. My biggest problem this year is that I always feel lost when writing a Context (Identity + Belonging) piece. My approach so far has been to treat the prompt like a I would a text response then make 3 main points which supports my contention and provide examples from my text + external sources. I know that if I continue this way into the exam my section B would be marked quite low. Recently for my exam prep, I have been trying to write in a more "philosophical manner" for my context, exploring the implications and different sides to the prompt rather than simply trying to argue my stance. Is this a better approach? Honestly I still feel very lost as I do not have any solid ideas :S

The structure that you've outlined above isn't necessarily a bad one; I did something very similar in that I just wrote a mostly expository piece (with a creative intro + concl. from memory) and four body paragraphs, the first of which unpacked the set text, and the others based on external references.

The only way that could lead to you scoring really low marks would be if you talked about the text for too long, or in too much detail, as you're expected to move away from this over the course of your essay.

At this point, it's best to stick with what you're most familiar with though. Just make sure your examples are strong, and that you can link them to the prompt fluently and effectively, and there's nothing stopping you from getting a great mark.

How many persuasive techniques should we aim to discuss in our body paragraphs for language analysis? is around 3 enough?
Three would be sufficient, but try to aim for more if you get a chance. Again, stick with what you know, so if you're used to analysing three (give or take the visual and/or comment(s)) then that'll be perfectly fine.

In this article: http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/04/12/high-speed-rail-just-doesnt-add-up-time-to-move-on/, the author says in the second paragraph: "For anyone who can add up, the high-speed rail phase 2 study released yesterday (or, if you were a newspaper journalist, Wednesday) should bring to an end the flirtation Australia’s polity is having with the idea of a high-speed rail network.".

I can see that he's trying to use humour (i.e. "flirting"), but when he says "or, if you were a newspaper journalist, Wednesday", what is he attempting to do through this? Is he making a joke of some sort?

Also, how would you describe what the author is trying to do when he says "For anyone who can add up"?
I'm pretty sure the reference to Wednesday is just because journalists usually get an advanced copy of these things the day before to ensure they can report on them accurately. The idea of flirting is more like figurative language (implying Australian policy is some effete, silly thing) and the 'for anyone who can add up' is just an offhanded remark to elicit derision. Those articles don't tend to be very persuasive though. At least, not in the same way the VCAA exams are.

For text response if we structure our body paragraphs like below is that considered 'sitting on the fence' and not taking a stance or is it acceptable?

B1: agree
B2: agree
B3: disagree
B4: disagree

Thanks
This'd work for Context, but a safer method for T.R. would be to either cut one paragraph, or change one so that it does the opposite, and you have a 3-1 majority instead of a 2-2 split.

URGENT!!
I need ideas for this Medea prompt!!

"Jason's only flaw is his over-ambition. Discuss."
Tbh at this point, if you're not prepared for a prompt about Jason or the theme of ambition, you'd probably need to spend some time tonight or tomorrow going back to the text. Try to think about Jason's flaws in general; would you consider him a very flawed character, or is he a good person in a bad situation who is taken advantage of by other characters? And would you call him ambitious? Does he follow his ambitions and prioritise his own concerns above those of others? Just try to unpack the prompt a little bit until it's more familiar to you, and build on the understanding that you have, rather than try to find some elusive 'ideas.'

Rishi97

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #827 on: October 27, 2015, 10:04:44 pm »
0
                    ~~~Just for the sake of visibility!!!
I'll be hanging around the forums all night and in the early hours of the morning tomorrow, so whilst I'd advocate getting a good night's sleep, if people want to drop their essays in on the forums someplace, I will get to everyone's, including anything that's slipped under the radar this week, so feel free to post a couple of things tonight, and then you'll hopefully get a chance to read through the recommendations tomorrow morning.

Lauren you are absolutely amazing! So nice of you to help everyone out!!!!
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cameotodd

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #828 on: October 27, 2015, 10:05:42 pm »
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                    ~~~Just for the sake of visibility!!!
I'll be hanging around the forums all night and in the early hours of the morning tomorrow, so whilst I'd advocate getting a good night's sleep, if people want to drop their essays in on the forums someplace, I will get to everyone's, including anything that's slipped under the radar this week, so feel free to post a couple of things tonight, and then you'll hopefully get a chance to read through the recommendations tomorrow morning.


Wow, you're so amazing! Legit would've been my dream to have a teacher with the same dedication as you!!!
Anyway, I'm just going to post this text response on In the Country of Men, and if you get the chance have a look :)
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ladybug

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #829 on: October 27, 2015, 10:07:26 pm »
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My teacher advocates using 2 main texts for the conflict expository that i would write, is this fine and what text would i write in the nominated text?

Good luck tomorrow and we're all gonna make it

mnafady2006

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #830 on: October 27, 2015, 10:08:29 pm »
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How can we incorporate views and values statements in our text response?
do we usually leave it to then end or? could you provide an example
Thanks
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cosine

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #831 on: October 27, 2015, 10:17:54 pm »
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URGENT HELP LAUREN:

For text response, for example with Euripides' view are we allowed to use a whole paragraph just talking about his view on a certain prompt? Say for example it is about how everyone in the play is equally repugnant, can we discuss in the first two paragraphs about how each character displays their own levels of repugnancy and then on the last para, talk about Euripdies' ultimate view on which character is more repugnant, and include evidence to back this up? (or maybe not definitively say Euripides does this or does that, but make supportive statements like 'Euripides seems to present the notion that Medea's actions were indeed justified'.)

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2015: VCE (ATAR: 94.85)

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #832 on: October 27, 2015, 10:33:22 pm »
+4
Lauren you are absolutely amazing! So nice of you to help everyone out!!!!

Amazing... mild insomniac... procrastinating from my own uni exams... these are all basically synonyms right?  ::)

Wow, you're so amazing! Legit would've been my dream to have a teacher with the same dedication as you!!!
Anyway, I'm just going to post this text response on In the Country of Men, and if you get the chance have a look :)
Will attach this essay along with your Id&b one in the Prac. Exam thread once I'm done so we can keep this for questions, but feel free to post more there or on the Submissions Board and I'll get to them :)

My teacher advocates using 2 main texts for the conflict expository that i would write, is this fine and what text would i write in the nominated text?
If you're writing three body paragraphs, then it'd be better to just use one text in your first para, and make your other two explorations based on external evidence. If you're writing four paragraphs, then you can use two texts, but perhaps use one of them in your intro, or reference it in another paragraph, and then you can state that one to be your main text drawn upon.

In general, both of the texts should fit the prompt tomorrow, but that doesn't mean you should use both of them. Your external examples will hopefully be more effective, and since you get marks for your quality of exploration, it's best to use those after you've made your one necessary text link unless you don't have any other option.

How can we incorporate views and values statements in our text response?
do we usually leave it to then end or? could you provide an example
Thanks
Views and values statements would be things like 'The author suggests that...' or 'The audience is made to feel sympathetic towards...' They're good for the intro, conclusion, and the ends of your body paragraphs.
So since you're doing This Boy's Life (I think?) you might have one paragraph discussing the portrayal of Rosemary as a mother, then get to the end and say something like 'Therefore, Wolff depicts Rosemary to be an incredibly well-intentioned parent, even though her actions may not always have entirely positive consequences.'

For text response, for example with Euripides' view are we allowed to use a whole paragraph just talking about his view on a certain prompt? Say for example it is about how everyone in the play is equally repugnant, can we discuss in the first two paragraphs about how each character displays their own levels of repugnancy and then on the last para, talk about Euripdies' ultimate view on which character is more repugnant, and include evidence to back this up? (or maybe not definitively say Euripides does this or does that, but make supportive statements like 'Euripides seems to present the notion that Medea's actions were indeed justified'.)
Yes, if you really wanted to, but I think you'd need to mention Euripides in your other paragraphs too. I don't know how you'd argue that one of the characters displays a trait without implying that the author is the one conveying this sense, so a better approach might be to examine certain characters' thoughts or intentions which strike you as notably harrowing or unjustified, then discuss some actions which might fall in to that category, and then finally consider whether any one character can be called 'completely' repugnant, or whether they all have some redeeming qualities.

But the paragraph breakdown doesn't instantly disqualify you from attaining high marks. The example I outlined above would be one possible way of doing things, but it's also likely that if you keep the task criteria in mind and are able to demonstrate a good textual understanding whilst unpacking the prompt, your approach could be equally efficacious :)

Adequace

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #833 on: November 01, 2015, 09:32:19 pm »
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Hi Lauren,

I'm studying "Little Miss Sunshine" at school currently and I'm having trouble embedding my quotes in to my statements.

We're supposed to analyse quotes and comment on what they tell us about the character's philosophy of success, pretty much writing a TR paragraph excluding the TS and LS. My teacher is encouraging me to embed the quote within the paragraph so it seems more cohesive and to prepare me for VCE English. My statements have usually been me stating the quote and then analysing it which seems pretty basic.

For example,

Quote - Richard: "Luck is the name losers give to their own failings. It's about wanting to win."

I wrote:
Richard suggests "luck" is an excuse that "losers give to their own failings", but achieving success is through your will "to win". This demonstrates that Richard believes achieving success or submitting to failure is solely dependent on the amount of effort you invest.

I'm not necessarily sure if this is correct or not, if you have time could you write up an example of how a pro would embed the quote in to their statement?

(I tried reading highly scoring TRs but I haven't read the novels and the language used is sophiscated as hell..)

Edit:
In a similar response to a similar quote, my teacher told me I just had to provide evidence then it would be okay. I thought the quote was the evidence?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 09:34:50 pm by Adequace »

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #834 on: November 05, 2015, 03:16:33 pm »
+4
I sure don't get much of a holiday with you diligent Year 11's floating about the place, huh? :P Jks jks, the remainder of this year and the summer holidays are great times to tidy up things in preparation for Year 12, and quote integration is a big one.

Although there are a few notable right and wrong ways to embed quotes, it can help to think of them on a spectrum from 'totally not part of the sentence' through to 'so smoothly blended it's like a delicious blended smoothie.'

On the 'wrong' end of the line you have things like
Richard idolises the idea of winning. "Luck is the name losers give to their own failings." This quote shows that he cares about winning.
Totally clunky, right?

Then you have things that are grammatically integrated, but the fact that they point out 'the character says: this' makes them a bit laborious. These can be okay in moderation though:
Richard idolises the idea of winning, as is evidenced by his declaration that: "luck is the name losers give to their own failings."
A little better, but you don't want to have to point things out that way every time. The above format can be really useful for Language Analysis, however; the fact that it allows you to comment on the language a bit (ie. his declaration that... his glorification of... his condemnation towards...) and there's a good opportunity at the end of this quote to start unpacking the words themselves.

Next, you have quotes that are fully integrated - the key difference b/n the orange and the green is that with this one, I could remove the quotation marks, and I wouldn't be able to tell what was being quoted. You can use a blend of these two styles if you want, but this next sort is usually the quickest and most efficient:
Richard has a quixotic faith in the promise of winning and he completely dismisses "luck" as a word which "losers give to their own failings."
This seems to be what you're doing at the moment, so this next option is probably going to be what you can start implementing.

To take your example:
Richard suggests "luck" is an excuse that "losers give to their own failings", but achieving success is through your will "to win". This demonstrates that Richard believes achieving success or submitting to failure is solely dependent on the amount of effort you invest.
This is getting across your point clearly, but notice how you've got one sentence that is just summarising what Richard says, and then the second sentence is where you analyse it by saying 'This demonstrates...'? This can easily be combined into a more efficient bit of analysis using the magic of NominalisationTM - now available in 4 easy payments of $19.99

Really, that's just a fancy word that means 'noun-ification' where you take a verb you're using in a summative sense, and turn it into a noun so you can analyse it.

So here you've used the verb 'suggests,' which we'll turn into 'suggestion' in order to get:
Richard's suggestion that "luck" is an excuse that "losers give to their own failings" demonstrates that he believes achieving success or submitting to failure is solely dependent on the amount of effort one invests.

Gradually, you'll find more and more ways of doing this; I was a fan of pointing out 'The fact that >something happens< is indicative of >something<' eg. 'The fact that Richard condemns "losers" is indicative of his own insecurities.' You can even shorten this to just 'That Richard condemns "losers" is indicative of his own insecurities,' which is a neat, creative way of changing things up, but it can sound a bit unnatural since it's kind of an archaic sentence structure.


So the two main things you should aim to do when embedding quotes:
1) make sure if flows grammatically with the sentence, and ideally integrate it to the point where you could remove punctuation and still have it be sensible. At the very least, aim for a 80/20 ratio of properly integrated green/blue ones to a few more overt orange types.
2) try to put the analysis within the same sentence as your quote. This enables you to more easily avoid summary, and can help make you more concise too.

(I tried reading highly scoring TRs but I haven't read the novels and the language used is sophiscated as hell..)
I can absolutely understand not being able to trek through some of the really verbose essays on these forums, but I'd say keep looking at those high scoring responses. They can take a while to grasp, but when you can start evaluating what they're doing right and wrong, you'll be able to improve your own writing too. Plus, all that hellishly sophisticated vocabulary will be stuff that you can write down, look up, and start using in your own writing where appropriate :)

Edit:
In a similar response to a similar quote, my teacher told me I just had to provide evidence then it would be okay. I thought the quote was the evidence?
Not quite sure what you're teacher is trying to say here, but based on what you've written here, perhaps s/he wants you to better spell out the connection between the evidence and your analysis. In other words, why is this quote evidence?
Break it down into stages:
1. Richard says luck is an excuse for losers.
2. He also says winning has to be something people want.
3. ? ? ?
4. Therefore he believes people are in control of their own lives, and that their success or failure is entirely their own fault.

There's a key link between the things that Richard says, and the estimation of his belief system, so try and find a midway point there. How do you know he invests so much faith in this belief? Why might his choice of words be particularly important? Think about the connotations of the word "excuse," or the way he divides/dichotomises the world so aggressively into 'winners' and 'losers,' then use this evidence as a means of substantiating your interpretation.

Hope that helps :)

Adequace

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #835 on: November 05, 2015, 04:40:57 pm »
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Extremely helpful reply, thank you so much!

argent

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #836 on: November 05, 2015, 07:08:02 pm »
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Hi Lauren,
Year 11 English exam coming up soon and I have a quick question.
I'm struggling quite a bit trying to form contentions for context prompts. I've been working on a few and been brainstorming, but the ideas just aren't seeming to come together. One of the ones I'm working on is:
"The need to belong can completely change who we are."
Of course there's the typical "does it always completely change our identity or only partially" and "what if people do not have a need to belong" etc.
So my question is, how would I tackle this? I really don't know how to put my ideas together to form a overall contention, and then split my ideas up into paragraphs without being to heavy on one side of the prompt as I'd like to cover all aspects evenly.
Thanks!

Shinkaze

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #837 on: November 07, 2015, 10:44:10 pm »
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Can anyone please link me to the attachment for the "useful language for language analysis", it just says attachment not found for me when I try to download it  :'(

YellowTongue

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #838 on: November 12, 2015, 06:11:13 am »
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Is it acceptable to change the form of a word when quoting in an essay?

For example, if I was quoting: "Fly, Mr Pelican, despite your broken wing. You know you can do this with the power of positivity!

Would it be acceptable to write something like this?: The author illustrates the "power" of approaching situations with a "positive" point of view by showing Mr Pelican "flying" with his "wings"; despite "breaking" one of them earlier in the novel.

Thanks for your help  ;D
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heids

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #839 on: November 12, 2015, 07:56:54 pm »
+1
Dug round in downloads till I found that useful language document - attached :) (also lots of vocab if you scroll down in this post, nudge nudge ;))

Is it acceptable to change the form of a word when quoting in an essay?

For example, if I was quoting: "Fly, Mr Pelican, despite your broken wing. You know you can do this with the power of positivity!

Would it be acceptable to write something like this?: The author illustrates the "power" of approaching situations with a "positive" point of view by showing Mr Pelican "flying" with his "wings"; despite "breaking" one of them earlier in the novel.

Thanks for your help  ;D

It's more than acceptable, it's good - but you have to use square brackets to show that you're changing it; e.g. 'fly' in original quote would become 'fly[ing]'.  (Note: I think weaving in five words (4/5 of them being changed) separately in one sentence looks a bit clumsy; instead, you could try 1-3 phrases like 'power of positivity' and 'broken wing', which would feel nicer to me at least.)
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