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Author Topic: VCE English Question Thread  (Read 847547 times)  Share 

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cosine

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #510 on: July 23, 2015, 05:31:56 pm »
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Hey guys

I forgot what to include in an introduction of a Text Response Essay. Also how/what is the best to start an intro?
May someone enlighten me please?

Thank you
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Adequace

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #511 on: July 23, 2015, 08:59:35 pm »
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Thanks Lauren,

My teacher said that we'll comparing our text which is Romeo & Juilet to a modern film based off R&J, we'll be comparing how love is conveyed and portrayed between the two pieces.

For the structure, would I still have a contention in my intro and topic sentences in my body paragraphs?

heids

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #512 on: July 24, 2015, 11:32:10 am »
+2
Thanks Lauren, learnt much from your explanation :)) that was always an issue I struggled with last year.

I forgot what to include in an introduction of a Text Response Essay. Also how/what is the best to start an intro?
Read Ned Nerb's post and literally lauren's, they know more than me.

Different people like different intro structures and lengths, for instance my feeling is that Lauren prefers a briefer intro so you can dive into the 'real stuff'.  Pretty much all would agree that you must include:
> text/author name
> brief unpacking of the topic and what in general you're going to discuss throughout the essay
> your contention.

I tended towards a longer method like Ned Nerb does:
1.  Nice, memorised (but flexible) contextualising sentence, discussing the historical context of the text.
2.  Link this to text and topic (name and underline text and give author's full name) and discuss/unpack topic in whatever way you feel like, 1-2 sentences.
3.  Signpost arguments (subtly).  This doesn't mean 'write three sentences summing up your three paragraphs' (which was what I tended to do last year ::)), but still cover the main points you're going to discuss, the points that support your contention.
4.  Finish on an overall 'thesis statement', a 'profound' sentence that sums up your contention and mentions the author.
In year 12, I used two structures for this:
'Although X, ultimately [author] Y.' [Lauren taught this one too].
OR: 'Ultimately for [author], despite X, Y is the case.'

Get a bunch of intros from English Resources and Sample High Scoring Responses and any other high-scoring samples you get.  Break down their structure and see how they do things; write comments on them; compare how they do things differently, too.  Don't just read them, pull them to bits.

Here's a sample intro of mine - coincidentally, written exactly one year ago on July 24th! - to show you a decent-ish effort from someone at this time of the year.  But please go and find other, more skilled intros!!

Spoiler
'Despite being out of practice, it was a marvellous laugh.'  Humour is a central aspect of 'A Christmas Carol'.  Discuss.
By replacing agrarian lifestyles with machinery, the 1800s Industrial Revolution caused rapid population increase in Victorian London, exacerbating the disparity between rich and poor.  Against this backdrop of suffering and destitution, Charles Dickens in his novella 'A Christmas Carol' nonetheless paints a vibrant and family-oriented society powered by the festivities of Christmas. perhaps over-long in getting to the point For Dickens, this joy is fuelled by the ability to view the world as a child, using humour to transcend the bleakness of life.  Indeed, his narrative voice's rich word-plays engage the audience, enabling him to present the harshness of life in a nonetheless appealing way.  Yet perhaps the strongest role of humour in 'A Christmas Carol' is its very absence, as Dickens' darkening tone presents a harsh indictment of Victorian society heightened by the contrast interesting idea that challenges the prompt, but could be expressed better to make more sense.  Ultimately for Dickens, with the absence of a childlike appreciation of the world, society is in the thralls of 'Doom'.  This intro signposts too strongly.  It has three separate sentences that essentially state explicitly what each paragraph will be about – which can lead to repetitive topic sentences, a restricted focus, limited development through the essay, and the examiner getting bored of being told something too often.  There also doesn't seem to be one explicit thesis statement - for some reason I didn't follow the sentence structures I normally used in this intro.
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cosine

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #513 on: July 24, 2015, 06:07:02 pm »
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Agh..

I don't know what to do. I have been sitting here trying to write something and I have come up with the most irrelevant introduction and a trash of a body paragraph. I read the book but I have no idea what to write... I know my topic/arguments but i cant put it to words :(
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cameotodd

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #514 on: July 24, 2015, 07:10:56 pm »
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Hey guys when a questions says 'To what extent do you agree?' e.g (‘The women of In the Country of Men are totally powerless.’
To what extent do you agree?) Can you argue both ways, or do you have to show one side only?
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #515 on: July 24, 2015, 07:30:33 pm »
+1
Hey guys when a questions says 'To what extent do you agree?' e.g (‘The women of In the Country of Men are totally powerless.’
To what extent do you agree?) Can you argue both ways, or do you have to show one side only?

You can certainly argue both ways. E.g if.. the women are totally powerless regarding (x) however (y). If you agree 80%, you talk about that 80% and you also talk about how u dont agree with the 20%

heids

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #516 on: July 25, 2015, 11:40:52 am »
+1
Agh..

I don't know what to do. I have been sitting here trying to write something and I have come up with the most irrelevant introduction and a trash of a body paragraph. I read the book but I have no idea what to write... I know my topic/arguments but i cant put it to words :(

Firstly, write out a plan; don't leave it in your head, write out a fairly detailed plan of exactly where you're heading, so you don't get lost in your ideas.  It's a bit like an anchor.  Then, explain to yourself in basic English what you're trying to say, like 'I'm trying to say that yeah, Medea does heaps of bad stuff, but actually Euripides is saying that we're not bad guys coz of the stuff we DO, but because of how we think of other people'.  (just making that up, don't have a clue of the play)

Then, write it down in more formal English ('While Medea does many bad actions, ultimately Euripides shows that we are not evil because of our actions, but rather because of how we think about other people'.)  Then, go over it and make your vocab more specific: like think about the word 'bad' - what sort of 'bad'? morally dubious, violent, selfish etc. (and hopefully you can finally be even more specific than those words).  What I wrote there was quite clunky ('... does many bad actions') and there's significant room for improvement because the ideas behind the sentence aren't expressed clearly, but you see how it was simply a more formal transcript of my thoughts?  That then gives me a jumping-off point to write a really GOOD sentence, with some time and thought.

Obviously in the exam you won't have the time to do this, but when you start panicking, you can do this process at triple-revs in your head.  Think, 'Okay, in basic words, what am I trying to say?'  Then think of a more formal way to say it, then clarify it more, then write.

Remember, if you can get your ideas out even in really basic English, that's better than not getting them out clearly in more sophisticated language, or worse, not writing them at all.

P.S. 'the most irrelevant introduction' sounds like you're letting your stress about how to write make you lose what to write.  DEFINITELY, write out a thorough plan, and go with the 'what am I trying to say' question first, writing out all your thoughts first and then going through the whole intro to make it better-written.  With practise, you'll learn to do the what and how together better, but for now get WHAT written down first and then stress about the HOW.  Remember, 'what' is more important!!
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EspoirTron

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #517 on: July 25, 2015, 11:56:30 am »
+2
Hey guys when a questions says 'To what extent do you agree?' e.g (‘The women of In the Country of Men are totally powerless.’
To what extent do you agree?) Can you argue both ways, or do you have to show one side only?

Yes definitely go both ways. Incorporating both sides of the argument is crucial.
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cameotodd

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #518 on: July 25, 2015, 03:19:11 pm »
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Yes definitely go both ways. Incorporating both sides of the argument is crucial.

Okay but then how do you conclude? Do you end with your own personal opinion about who holds more power or conclude in the sense that both genders hold power?
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heids

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #519 on: July 25, 2015, 03:48:30 pm »
+3
Okay but then how do you conclude? Do you end with your own personal opinion about who holds more power or conclude in the sense that both genders hold power?
'Do you agree' is actually nothing to do with your own viewpoint; if you see a 'do you agree' prompt, rewrite it with 'discuss', because they mean exactly the same thing. 
Definitely don't have an essay discussing all viewpoints and then suddenly slam us at the end with 'well actually of the arguments I presented, this one's right and the others can all go to hell'.  If you present multiple viewpoints, that should be your contention, your argument throughout the whole essay: that in most situations X but in some situations Y.  Don't introduce something 'new', some new conclusion, at the end - it has to be consistent with your whole essay.

I shall now regurgitate slightly mutated slabs of what I've heard Lauren say, about challenging the prompt.  Lauren draws a spectrum that from memory looks something like this:

disagree | X ---------------------*---------------------X---------------------*---------------------X | agree

You have a prompt, and you have to sit somewhere on that spectrum, between 'I 100% agree that in ALL cases for ALL people this is definitely the case' and 'I 100% disagree, this is NEVER the case'.  The Xes are bad points to sit.  You don't want to fence-sit with 'yeah women don't have much power but actually men don't either and women do have some power, actually it's a bit of both', because it sounds wishy-washy and contradictory.  But you don't want to say 'yes all women are always, in every situation, totally powerless', because it's probably not true and as soon as someone can pick one example when women have power, your whole argument collapses.

So, you want to sit at one of the asterisk sweet spots, where you pretty much say, 'Yes, but... [in a few special cases we see...]' or 'No, but...'

'The women of ITCOM are powerless'.

So here, you'll want to think of different characters in the story, and different types of power (physical, power to make their own decisions, power to survive without men, power to influence others' lives, etc.).  So your contention may be that while in general women are relatively powerless, they do wield certain types of power in certain circumstances.  Plus you should go into the author's intentions and why they present it in a certain way: are they condemning the patriarchal society? are they suggesting that certain characteristics are important to achieve power? etc.  You could perhaps go off and talk a bit about how men are powerless, too, but that risks going off topic, because the topic is about women, not men.

Some good structures you could use in your intro or conclusion:
'Although X, ultimately Y.'
OR: 'Ultimately for [author], despite X, Y is the case.'

(Where 'X' is your 'but' in a 'Yes, but' or 'No, but' structure).
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cameotodd

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #520 on: July 25, 2015, 06:13:04 pm »
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'Do you agree' is actually nothing to do with your own viewpoint; if you see a 'do you agree' prompt, rewrite it with 'discuss', because they mean exactly the same thing. 
Definitely don't have an essay discussing all viewpoints and then suddenly slam us at the end with 'well actually of the arguments I presented, this one's right and the others can all go to hell'.  If you present multiple viewpoints, that should be your contention, your argument throughout the whole essay: that in most situations X but in some situations Y.  Don't introduce something 'new', some new conclusion, at the end - it has to be consistent with your whole essay.

I shall now regurgitate slightly mutated slabs of what I've heard Lauren say, about challenging the prompt.  Lauren draws a spectrum that from memory looks something like this:

disagree | X ---------------------*---------------------X---------------------*---------------------X | agree

You have a prompt, and you have to sit somewhere on that spectrum, between 'I 100% agree that in ALL cases for ALL people this is definitely the case' and 'I 100% disagree, this is NEVER the case'.  The Xes are bad points to sit.  You don't want to fence-sit with 'yeah women don't have much power but actually men don't either and women do have some power, actually it's a bit of both', because it sounds wishy-washy and contradictory.  But you don't want to say 'yes all women are always, in every situation, totally powerless', because it's probably not true and as soon as someone can pick one example when women have power, your whole argument collapses.

So, you want to sit at one of the asterisk sweet spots, where you pretty much say, 'Yes, but... [in a few special cases we see...]' or 'No, but...'

'The women of ITCOM are powerless'.

So here, you'll want to think of different characters in the story, and different types of power (physical, power to make their own decisions, power to survive without men, power to influence others' lives, etc.).  So your contention may be that while in general women are relatively powerless, they do wield certain types of power in certain circumstances.  Plus you should go into the author's intentions and why they present it in a certain way: are they condemning the patriarchal society? are they suggesting that certain characteristics are important to achieve power? etc.  You could perhaps go off and talk a bit about how men are powerless, too, but that risks going off topic, because the topic is about women, not men.

Some good structures you could use in your intro or conclusion:
'Although X, ultimately Y.'
OR: 'Ultimately for [author], despite X, Y is the case.'

(Where 'X' is your 'but' in a 'Yes, but' or 'No, but' structure).

Wow this is great! Thank you so much for the pointers, they've helped me so much on how to attack 'discuss' and 'do you agree' prompts. Also, in the future, can I send you some of my essay for some feedback?

Thanks :D
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heids

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #521 on: July 25, 2015, 07:19:56 pm »
+1
Wow this is great! Thank you so much for the pointers, they've helped me so much on how to attack 'discuss' and 'do you agree' prompts. Also, in the future, can I send you some of my essay for some feedback?

Thanks :D
Feel free to post essays in English Work Submission and Marking, I try to swing past all the essays there :) (slowly, still got one to do -.-)
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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #522 on: July 25, 2015, 08:32:42 pm »
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I have to write an expository essay on the prompt "fear is at the heart of conflict". Am I allowed to explain other causes of conflict such as misunderstandings, and social hierarchies, or do I have to stick to fear?

Chang Feng

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #523 on: August 01, 2015, 10:00:06 pm »
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heyy, for context:
Does our external examples we use (for an expository essay) have to be based on the ideas of the set text or can they just be any ideas related to the prompt?
thanks.

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #524 on: August 01, 2015, 10:03:22 pm »
+2
Based on the prompt, imo. If they provide some ideas on the opposite end of the spectrum to your book, all the better. Your examples will be considered weaker if you can't connect them to the prompt or compare them to existing ideas you've already formed.
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