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March 19, 2024, 09:01:42 pm

Author Topic: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!  (Read 40897 times)

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vagrantshades

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2012, 06:51:27 pm »
Isn't MC
i had

5) A
12) C?

12 was C. 5 was D because it's not technically false to say that the secondary structure involves hydrogen bonds between N-H and C-O groups. Because that is the case. If it had said that it involved hydrogen bonds between all N-H and C-O that would be untrue.

It would be false, because the secondary structure isn't maintained by hydrogen bonds between N-H and C-O groups in the side chains. By saying between N-H and C-O groups, it still includes those side chains. So I guess they might have to accept two answers then.

It doesn't include side chains at all. It mentioned only the nature of the bonding and from which atoms it stemmed, not from whereabouts on the molecule those atoms were.

I was so tempted to write beta glucose for that question but I couldn't remember what the symbol for beta looked like haha.

Yeah but because it doesn't mention WHERE those atoms are, it doesn't rule out the atoms in the side chains. Secondary structure is specifically maintained by those atoms in the peptide linkage, it can't be from anywhere else in the polypeptide.
What you're essentially doing then is saying that statement II was not true. But it is true.

Hydrogen bonding in the tertiary structure occurs between other groups too (hydroxyls, etc) and I'm not entirely sure that amines and carboxys do form hydrogen bonds in the tertiary structure.

It would be true if they had stated it was only those atoms in the peptide groups. Yes it is maintained by hydrogen bonds between -NH and -CO bonds, but if hydrogen bonds form between those functional groups in the Z-group of amino acids, then those hydrogen bonds don't maintain the secondary structure, they maintain the tertiary structure.
So really, that statement is only partially true. They should accept both A and D.

charmanderp

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2012, 06:54:20 pm »
Isn't MC
i had

5) A
12) C?

12 was C. 5 was D because it's not technically false to say that the secondary structure involves hydrogen bonds between N-H and C-O groups. Because that is the case. If it had said that it involved hydrogen bonds between all N-H and C-O that would be untrue.

It would be false, because the secondary structure isn't maintained by hydrogen bonds between N-H and C-O groups in the side chains. By saying between N-H and C-O groups, it still includes those side chains. So I guess they might have to accept two answers then.

It doesn't include side chains at all. It mentioned only the nature of the bonding and from which atoms it stemmed, not from whereabouts on the molecule those atoms were.

I was so tempted to write beta glucose for that question but I couldn't remember what the symbol for beta looked like haha.

Yeah but because it doesn't mention WHERE those atoms are, it doesn't rule out the atoms in the side chains. Secondary structure is specifically maintained by those atoms in the peptide linkage, it can't be from anywhere else in the polypeptide.
What you're essentially doing then is saying that statement II was not true. But it is true.

Hydrogen bonding in the tertiary structure occurs between other groups too (hydroxyls, etc) and I'm not entirely sure that amines and carboxys do form hydrogen bonds in the tertiary structure.

It would be true if they had stated it was only those atoms in the peptide groups. Yes it is maintained by hydrogen bonds between -NH and -CO bonds, but if hydrogen bonds form between those functional groups in the Z-group of amino acids, then those hydrogen bonds don't maintain the secondary structure, they maintain the tertiary structure.
So really, that statement is only partially true. They should accept both A and D.

I don't think hydrogen bonds do occur between those functional groups in the tertiary structure though. Not certain though but it may just be other groups.
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vagrantshades

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2012, 06:55:26 pm »
Isn't MC
i had

5) A
12) C?

12 was C. 5 was D because it's not technically false to say that the secondary structure involves hydrogen bonds between N-H and C-O groups. Because that is the case. If it had said that it involved hydrogen bonds between all N-H and C-O that would be untrue.

It would be false, because the secondary structure isn't maintained by hydrogen bonds between N-H and C-O groups in the side chains. By saying between N-H and C-O groups, it still includes those side chains. So I guess they might have to accept two answers then.

It doesn't include side chains at all. It mentioned only the nature of the bonding and from which atoms it stemmed, not from whereabouts on the molecule those atoms were.

I was so tempted to write beta glucose for that question but I couldn't remember what the symbol for beta looked like haha.

Yeah but because it doesn't mention WHERE those atoms are, it doesn't rule out the atoms in the side chains. Secondary structure is specifically maintained by those atoms in the peptide linkage, it can't be from anywhere else in the polypeptide.
What you're essentially doing then is saying that statement II was not true. But it is true.

Hydrogen bonding in the tertiary structure occurs between other groups too (hydroxyls, etc) and I'm not entirely sure that amines and carboxys do form hydrogen bonds in the tertiary structure.

It would be true if they had stated it was only those atoms in the peptide groups. Yes it is maintained by hydrogen bonds between -NH and -CO bonds, but if hydrogen bonds form between those functional groups in the Z-group of amino acids, then those hydrogen bonds don't maintain the secondary structure, they maintain the tertiary structure.
So really, that statement is only partially true. They should accept both A and D.

I don't think hydrogen bonds do occur between those functional groups in the tertiary structure though. Not certain though but it may just be other groups.

Hydrogen bonds can form between them, and hydrogen bonds can form else where. Those functional groups share the same dipole properties as they do in the peptide linkage, and thus hydrogen bonds can still form.

charmanderp

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2012, 06:57:06 pm »
Probably haha. But honestly I don't think VCAA will except two answers. I'm happy to be proven wrong (just so long as it is two answers and not just A :P).
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AllAboutTheLGs

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2012, 06:59:32 pm »
it should really be two answers.... really ambiguous
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vagrantshades

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2012, 07:01:46 pm »
Probably haha. But honestly I don't think VCAA will except two answers. I'm happy to be proven wrong (just so long as it is two answers and not just A :P).

They can accept two answers! :D They've done it before for multiple choice. I think it's too ambiguous for them to accept just D or just A. They stuffed up.

AllAboutTheLGs

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2012, 07:03:25 pm »
^ Almost all the top students at our school put down A, minus charmanderp cos hes a chemistry god.
I put A cos I was like... not sure is rly easy or trick question and i was like I  got tricked on a similar question during practice exams (couldve been tertiary strucutre hydrogen bonding) and ultiamtely went with A
-sigh!
the dream is dead :p
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charmanderp

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2012, 07:08:16 pm »
^ Almost all the top students at our school put down A, minus charmanderp cos hes a chemistry god.
I put A cos I was like... not sure is rly easy or trick question and i was like I  got tricked on a similar question during practice exams (couldve been tertiary strucutre hydrogen bonding) and ultiamtely went with A
-sigh!
the dream is dead :p
Haha I confer any god status to you, sounds like you tore the exam up otherwise.
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mr.politiks

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2012, 07:09:00 pm »
5 is most probably D. VCAA might be very unlikely to accept A as well. When taken for its pure meaning, statement II is correct. If the point that secondary structure only involves H bonds between amide sections of the amino acid chain wasn't known, the question would have definetely seemed ambiguous though :/

charmanderp

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2012, 07:10:43 pm »
Probably haha. But honestly I don't think VCAA will except two answers. I'm happy to be proven wrong (just so long as it is two answers and not just A :P).

They can accept two answers! :D They've done it before for multiple choice. I think it's too ambiguous for them to accept just D or just A. They stuffed up.

They can and I hope they do for your sake but I think the previous examples were slightly different. They were due to lack of details about a certain experiment rather than grey areas.
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WhoTookMyUsername

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2012, 07:10:56 pm »
from the way it's phrased i think it's implying that it's ONLY from the...

illuminati

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2012, 07:16:37 pm »
5 is most probably D. VCAA might be very unlikely to accept A as well. When taken for its pure meaning, statement II is correct. If the point that secondary structure only involves H bonds between amide sections of the amino acid chain wasn't known, the question would have definetely seemed ambiguous though :/

I would agree
Like sure it isn't the -NH and -CO groups on the same amide, but secondary structure is indeed the bonding between -NH and -CO groups of different peptide linkages. The statement is definitely true, so it should be D. It can't be A cos you'd be saying the statement is false.
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vagrantshades

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2012, 07:17:58 pm »
5 is most probably D. VCAA might be very unlikely to accept A as well. When taken for its pure meaning, statement II is correct. If the point that secondary structure only involves H bonds between amide sections of the amino acid chain wasn't known, the question would have definetely seemed ambiguous though :/

I would agree
Like sure it isn't the -NH and -CO groups on the same amide, but secondary structure is indeed the bonding between -NH and -CO groups of different peptide linkages. The statement is definitely true, so it should be D. It can't be A cos you'd be saying the statement is false.

But there are amino acids that have -NH and -CO in their side groups (Z groups) and any hydrogen bonding between them maintains the tertiary structure and not the secondary. So statement II is not entirely true, it needs to be more specific.

charmanderp

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2012, 07:21:44 pm »
5 is most probably D. VCAA might be very unlikely to accept A as well. When taken for its pure meaning, statement II is correct. If the point that secondary structure only involves H bonds between amide sections of the amino acid chain wasn't known, the question would have definetely seemed ambiguous though :/

I would agree
Like sure it isn't the -NH and -CO groups on the same amide, but secondary structure is indeed the bonding between -NH and -CO groups of different peptide linkages. The statement is definitely true, so it should be D. It can't be A cos you'd be saying the statement is false.

But there are amino acids that have -NH and -CO in their side groups (Z groups) and any hydrogen bonding between them maintains the tertiary structure and not the secondary. So statement II is not entirely true, it needs to be more specific.

It could be more specific but that doesn't make it any less true or aphoristic. There's really no such thing as 'entirely true' - you can't really fault that statement. To agree with the statement sats that hydrogen bonding between NH and CO groups does maintain the secondary structure and to disagree says that hydrogen bonding between NH and CO groups does not maintain the secondary structure. Obviously only the former is true.
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rocket

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Re: SUGGESTED ANSWERS!!!
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2012, 07:23:39 pm »
I drew the graph starting at 0 instead of .06 absorbance for some stupid reason!!! I used that date to find the mg, how many marks will I lose out of the maximum four??